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Preaching to the Choir on GMRS, GPS, and Sena 20s

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Preaching to the Choir on GMRS, GPS, and Sena 20s

Unread postby OldButNotDead » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:17 pm

I know a lot of you guys are way out in front of me on this but I just got a Motorola MU359r and my install/configuration is fresh in my mind so I thought I'd pass some things on.
When I first configured my GPS (used both Navigator V and Zumo 660LM) to my Sena 20s, I had fits filling that void between Sena instructions (now there is an oxymoron :lol: ) and making things just work. I still have a hard time figuring out what a "tap" is. Anyhow, what I wound up doing was pairing my Galaxy S5 to my GPS which was super simple. Then I paired the GPS to my 20S. Sorta simple too. This method makes phone operation work right off the Nav V menu like a champ. It does screw things up when you pair the GRRS. I don't recall but something no longer worked, think it was anything using the phone.

What I learned today which is really a Homer Simpson, DUH, is to pair two things at one time with no BT anythings anywhere close, don't pair the phone through the GPS, AND decide on an order to pair things. So today I first paired the BT PTT switch to the GMRS. Took me three tries and at least ten times reading the directions to figure out how to get both into the pairing mode. (wasn't that bad, but <olfart> eyes and brain are working overtime nowadays) Next came the hard part. Because all the old pairing are kept in the 20s, I couldn't get things to pair. Any old time computer geek will tell you, when things get tough, wipe it slick and go to square one. Device reset worked like a champ. Pairing to the 20s became super easy. So this time I paired the GPS to the 20S, then the phone, and last the GMRS.

I haven't had a chance to try out everything but it sure looks like everything works fine together. After the reset, pairing was fast.
Hope this helps somebody.
Rod
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Re: Preaching to the Choir on GMRS, GPS, and Sena 20s

Unread postby Bob » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:11 pm

Sounds like you got it figured out. Congratulations, you are hereby promoted from FNG to the "Sena Pre-Ride Pairing Facilitator". Be sure to practice the dance steps before the next ride, or you run the risk of pissing-off the Bluetooth gods. <muaha>
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Re: Preaching to the Choir on GMRS, GPS, and Sena 20s

Unread postby OldButNotDead » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:52 pm

Bob,
I've pissed off so many Gods in my lifetime one more won't matter. <grin>
What I want to do is play around with the various BT options in the 20s. I have a friend in MSTA who has messed with 20s a lot. He said, and it seems that others on this forum have said it as well, some of the 20's functions don't seem to work quite like Sena says they do. A project like that might keep me out of trouble for a while, beats cutting the grass. LOL
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Re: Preaching to the Choir on GMRS, GPS, and Sena 20s

Unread postby LeeDavis » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:10 pm

Never let on that you think you've figured Sena out. Sena doesn't like that.
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Re: Preaching to the Choir on GMRS, GPS, and Sena 20s

Unread postby OldButNotDead » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:10 am

LeeDavis wrote:Never let on that you think you've figured Sena out. Sena doesn't like that.

LOL, I'm new to Sena. I did try to correspond to Sena's customer/tech support but wasn't left with a warm fuzzy each time I did. Now you want to talk arrogance and frustration, try Garmin. Their motto is, "Oh, we don't support that." Followed by "you need to buy our more expensive model." And that probably doesn't do what you want either.
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Update and Trouble Shooting

Unread postby OldButNotDead » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:23 am

Yesterday, went riding with Bob and Scott. Sena, GPS, phone and GRMS all worked well----for a while. The GMRS worked for half of the day and then it just stopped transmitting. Receive was good all day. Bob said that Motorola has battery issues. I just ordered two 1600ma batteries and that should solve that problem----IF battery life is the problem. When I got home I tested the MU350r with the second radio. It worked fine in front of the TV <grin> So I left both radios and the PTT on all night. I'm still showing the radio having 50% charge and it is still working like a champ. That's with BT PTT, without BT PTT, radio to radio, and radio through 20S with NAV V and phone running. Plan is to drain both GMRS's and PTT then charge them overnight+. Then use the wife with the second GMRS and run my test again around the neighborhood. Will try that both before and after overnight charge.

I had the GMRS in my riding jacket pocket, but that should not be an issue. Am looking into other mounting solutions too.
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Re: Preaching to the Choir on GMRS, GPS, and Sena 20s

Unread postby Bob » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:08 am

Thinking back, I heard some voice-less transmissions even before lunch. I think Lee has to put a fresh battery in pretty often when riding, right Lee?

Try charging/discharging them 2-3 times and I think they will then hold a charge much longer. Did you think we were ignoring you lol?

Actually, I think the GMRS transmitting part of the radio still works because it does open the channel, its the BT connection that goes out because your voice doesn't get picked up. Thats weird since it takes a lot more milliamps to xmit GMRS than BT.
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Re: Preaching to the Choir on GMRS, GPS, and Sena 20s

Unread postby LeeDavis » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:33 am

The Motorola 350 has a USB charge port that enables it to run off the bike's battery. That's what I do. I've used the radio battery in the past and it lasted through a day ride though with very heavy use I don't doubt it could go flat early.

If the radio was receiving all day but losing transmit then I would 1st look at the PTT for a problem.

Here's my radio mounted with a Ram X-Grip.

FJ-09 GPS Radio RD.jpg
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Re: Preaching to the Choir on GMRS, GPS, and Sena 20s

Unread postby Bob » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:11 am

If the radio was receiving all day but losing transmit then I would 1st look at the PTT for a problem.


He pulled it off the bike and pressed the radio's PTT and it did the same, xmit for a second then went dead. Yet my voice came thru fine when I xmitted. If its opening the channel (which it is) then the PTT is doing all its designed to do, and the radio is just not picking up his voice from the Sena. This has happened several times in past rides I can remember, with somebody, maybe not you Lee. Jeff maybe....
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Re: Preaching to the Choir on GMRS, GPS, and Sena 20s

Unread postby OldButNotDead » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:31 am

Hey Lee, is that a motorcycle or an EA6B ready to jam Baghdad??? LOL
I am giving serious thought to running it on bike power too. I like your mount. At 462 mhz, not only does power impact range but so does polarity of the antenna. So making it vertical and having some space around the antenna is a good thing, sometimes a real good thing.

Just as an FYI, no Bob, I was thinking you were ignoring me <grin> As far as heavy use goes, I'm not a chatty Kathy either. I'm more concerned about being able to rely on the thing when I actually need it. Well guess what, my primary radio just finally started to give the low battery beeps. I'm going to make sure they are close to flat dead before I go for the overnight charge though.
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Re: Preaching to the Choir on GMRS, GPS, and Sena 20s

Unread postby Bob » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:41 am

Yeah, you're right the position of the antenna can help, although with the stubby little antenna not as much as with a longer one. I have run mine laying flat inside my tank bag and it seemed to do fine, although it is 4 watts.

Edit: with your radio background, you might want to sell the Moto and get one of these Icoms like Scott and I use which enables you to mount a remote antenna wherever, and gives you the full 4 watts xmit.
http://www.buytwowayradios.com/products ... 11-41.aspx

Its also repeater capable if you're into that sort of stuff...

Edit: although with the Icom you would need the Sena SR10 as Icom is not Bluetooth. But you would gain another 2 audio inputs for radar detector, GPS.
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Re: Preaching to the Choir on GMRS, GPS, and Sena 20s

Unread postby LeeDavis » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:50 am

Yeah, the old NiCd type rechargeable batteries used by the Motorola need a couple full charge/discharge cycles to reach their stated capacity. If you plan to run the radio off it's own battery then carry a set of Lithium AA as back up. Compared to NiCd they last "forever".
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Re: Preaching to the Choir on GMRS, GPS, and Sena 20s

Unread postby OldButNotDead » Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:14 pm

LeeDavis wrote:Yeah, the old NiCd type rechargeable batteries used by the Motorola need a couple full charge/discharge cycles to reach their stated capacity. If you plan to run the radio off it's own battery then carry a set of Lithium AA as back up. Compared to NiCd they last "forever".

Before I go to Lithiums, I'll just use bike power. The GS has a power plug right up front that I can put a USB port into with a short line. I've worked with battery memory for recharge before. This should NOT be happening.
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Re: Preaching to the Choir on GMRS, GPS, and Sena 20s

Unread postby Bob » Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:58 pm

OldButNotDead wrote: Before I go to Lithiums, I'll just use bike power. The GS has a power plug right up front that I can put a USB port into with a short line. I've worked with battery memory for recharge before. This should NOT be happening.


The only downside to using bike power is occasionally you will pick up RF interference from the bike thru the 12v line. If this happens, then just run it on bike power during lunch to re-charge it.

As for the memory effect should not be happening, aren't those Motorola batteries either Nimh or NIcd? Both types are subject to memory effect.
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Re: Preaching to the Choir on GMRS, GPS, and Sena 20s

Unread postby OldButNotDead » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:14 pm

Bob wrote:The only downside to using bike power is occasionally you will pick up RF interference from the bike thru the 12v line. If this happens, then just run it on bike power during lunch to re-charge it.

As for the memory effect should not be happening, aren't those Motorola batteries either Nimh or NIcd? Both types are subject to memory effect.

If the elves in the Black Forest did there homework, again there "should not" be RF coming through that 12v line. If, and I say IF, it is it should be easy to put a filter on it. Also, and I found this out with Garmin units, there are USB lines available with chokes on them. I'm sure you have seen them. On early Garmins if you did not use them with map upgrades you would have the upgrade die during the load.

I'm no expert on this, but I'm pretty sure a lot of rechargeable batteries had issues with recharge memory. Why I say that it should not be a problem in this particular case is that Motorola knows right up front their radios will have a lot of recharge cycles and should know what useful receive/xmit life is. The overwhelming number of police, ems, and fire portable radios are Motorolas. I think they say 10-11hrs which is reasonable. It should not be five hours like the other day and they should have batteries that are tested for MTBF, and in my opinion if it it stopped transmitting in half the advertised operating life, it is a failure. If I'm living right, which is definitely a problematic assumption, I didn't do the initial charge long enough. If that is the case the original battaries may be useless because once the memory is set, some batteries never are able to reset.
We'll see. Good thing about retirement, I've got lots of time to play with this until I come up with an answer.

My batteries are now on charge cycle. They show fully charged at about 3 hrs of charging. I'm still going to charge them until tomorrow morning which will be around 15 hrs. The stock battery is 1300 mAh. I have two 1600 mAh battaries inbound. They will go through an overnight cycle for sure.
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Had an Epiphany

Unread postby OldButNotDead » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:41 am

Was looking at an Anker charging block that my wife uses to charge her Galaxy cell. I used it on long trips for my phone and Sena. It will charge my Galaxy 3 full times. You can also run a device directly from it. There are various models listed in Amazon depending on how much you want to spend. So the mind fart, oh epiphany, was I can either run my motorola directly off of it or put it in my bag to charge my spare battery and/or my Sena. That should keep the batteries at top charge most of the day and you can charge the block over night. My head is spinning trying to figure where to mount it for a direct connection.
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Re: Had an Epiphany

Unread postby LeeDavis » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:33 am

OldButNotDead wrote:Was looking at an Anker charging block that my wife uses to charge her Galaxy cell.


Get the kind that has jumper cables with sufficient power to start a vehicle. I have one stashed in the top box that's come in handy for charging devices and yes, starting a vehicle.
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Re: Had an Epiphany

Unread postby OldButNotDead » Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:26 pm

LeeDavis wrote:
OldButNotDead wrote:Was looking at an Anker charging block that my wife uses to charge her Galaxy cell.


Get the kind that has jumper cables with sufficient power to start a vehicle. I have one stashed in the top box that's come in handy for charging devices and yes, starting a vehicle.


Thanks, for right now I'm just going to steal the wife's. LOL
So far my test is running good at 4 hours. Motorola said they will send me new batteries if they don't hold the charge.
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Re: Preaching to the Choir on GMRS, GPS, and Sena 20s

Unread postby OldButNotDead » Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:58 pm

Well Lee, got my cockpit looking like yours. GMRS is mounted in the X mount and have my radar detector mounted with a Walmart hat bill LED clipped to my Navigator V. Now all that is left is a field test.

My tests of the original batteries riding in the neighborhood turned out OK. New 1600 mAh batteries are charged so I'll actually have four batteries charged and ready to go next time.

What I am anxious to do is a test of BT just to compare it to GMRS. Just need to turn off the the afternoon tooner boomers around here. Yesterday afternoon it was coming down like a waterfall.
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Re: Preaching to the Choir on GMRS, GPS, and Sena 20s

Unread postby Bob » Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:08 pm

Great--this Sunday looks like the next decent rideable day, for me anyway, if the forecast holds out. I'll post a ride soon. But don't wait for me! <rdr>
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Re: Preaching to the Choir on GMRS, GPS, and Sena 20s

Unread postby LeeDavis » Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:37 pm

OldButNotDead wrote:Well Lee, got my cockpit looking like yours.


Mine's even wackier lately. Garmin got replaced by a Nexus 7. It's BIG, a shur'nuf map! <bugeye>

Nexus 7 FJ-09.jpg
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Re: Preaching to the Choir on GMRS, GPS, and Sena 20s

Unread postby OldButNotDead » Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:43 am

LeeDavis wrote:
OldButNotDead wrote:Well Lee, got my cockpit looking like yours.


Mine's even wackier lately. Garmin got replaced by a Nexus 7. It's BIG, a shur'nuf map! <bugeye>


Bigger IS better! <grin> I had a Nuvi 2797 LMT on my FJR but switched to a Zumo 660LM. The Nuvi was IMO a much better unit for display but Garmin's implementation of BT on Nuvis was the reason I will no longer buy a Garmin. The display on the 660 was just too small; however, the BT worked well with the 20s. Since I loaded my routes and carried paper maps it did what I needed, alerted me to route changes. My Navigator is great because of the bike integration, but I have total faith in Garmin, they will figure out some way to screw it up so they can charge you two or three times what a unit is worth.

Right now I've got the Motorola BT PTT swich mounted; however, I would rather have a small PTT button near one of the grips so I could get at it quicker. I asked Motorola about that but the guy I got at Talkabout customer support, just slipped across the border and didn't understand anything about the aux port.
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Re: Preaching to the Choir on GMRS, GPS, and Sena 20s

Unread postby OldButNotDead » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:54 am

Lee,
I'm hoping to pick your brain on PTT.

The first time I rode with Bob, I could hear everyone but guys could just hear my first words then nothing. Yesterday was the same. After the first time I followed advice about battery power. Batteries were not the problem. After several checks it came down to two things, the radio itself or the 20S. After a quick side of the road test, I was 99.9% sure the radio was OK. This was also born out by tests with my second radio. Everything pointed to a VOX problem or something real close, probably in the 20S. VOX is on by default in a 20S and I'm almost certain if you have an SR10, it is controlled by the SR10. This morning I rode my bike and talked to my wife in the car and everything worked. I finally was able to turn off VOX in the 20S. It was already off in the Motorola's so I assumed it was OFF, the 20S must override that. Even though I looked at the configuration app, I would have sworn that VOX was not listed. WRONG ANSWER. My eyes operated with excellent clarity this morning and there it was. Turned it off and wammo it works like a champ.

Now for the search for perfection. I have the BT PTT Model 1693. It works BUT there is a delay between when you push it and when the radio actually transmits. Somewhere I read that some COFSTRA rider was able to connect to the Auxillary Port and use the wired PTT, maybe by cutting off the speaker/mike. Do you have any info on this type of setup? I do know that if you press the on radio PTT it is almost instantaneous.
Thanks,
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Re: Preaching to the Choir on GMRS, GPS, and Sena 20s

Unread postby Bob » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:03 am

Rod, don't forget about the sound being picked up by the radio's built-in mic as well as your helmet mic when you transmit. I have seen this before, I think its either the wrong length 1/8" PTT plug or something else in that circuit, its not cutting out the built-in mic. When you transmit I hear the bikes motor very loudly, like theres a mic attached to it.

Oh--it has also been observed in some jury-rigged PTT switches that had a built-in mic. I assume the BT PTT doesn't have a mic built-in...?
Good luck.
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Re: Preaching to the Choir on GMRS, GPS, and Sena 20s

Unread postby LeeDavis » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:12 am

OldButNotDead wrote:Lee,
Somewhere I read that some COFSTRA rider was able to connect to the Auxillary Port and use the wired PTT, maybe by cutting off the speaker/mike.
Rod


I use the Motorola wired PTT and the interrupt isn't instant. There's a slight delay before I hear the hiss of the channel. I've found this to be the case for most any 2 way radio. It's best to pause a beat after pressing the PTT before I start talking.

BTW, if you try to make your own PTT from an existing headset disable but don't cut off the mike or the ptt won't work. Don't ask how I know this.
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Re: Preaching to the Choir on GMRS, GPS, and Sena 20s

Unread postby OldButNotDead » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:17 am

Lee,
Which model headset do you have? I might just get one to play with.
Thanks
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Re: Preaching to the Choir on GMRS, GPS, and Sena 20s

Unread postby LeeDavis » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:31 pm

OldButNotDead wrote:Lee,
Which model headset do you have? I might just get one to play with.
Thanks


For something to experiment on, go cheap like the following. You'll have to take the ptt mechanism apart to disable the mic. ( but don't cut the mic wires or nothing works!)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Police-PTT-Earp ... SwlY1ZKRJw


Here's the branded Motorola wired solution I use. Unfortunately, they don't sell the ptt separately.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorola-1884-W ... SwAuNW7qMU
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Re: Preaching to the Choir on GMRS, GPS, and Sena 20s

Unread postby OldButNotDead » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:17 pm

I just ordered https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017K ... UTF8&psc=1
There are two and similar to the Motorola one you listed. I'm going to dissect one first and experiment on it. That should keep me off the street for a day or two. LOL
The primary thing I want to see is if the PTT on the wired version will key the mike in my helmet.
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Re: Preaching to the Choir on GMRS, GPS, and Sena 20s

Unread postby OldButNotDead » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:41 pm

LeeDavis wrote:Here's the branded Motorola wired solution I use. Unfortunately, they don't sell the ptt separately.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorola-1884-W ... SwAuNW7qMU

I have one of these inbound. I'm assuming the PTT button plugs into the aux port, correct? Do you need the ear piece/vox at all? This may sound like a crazy question but I have talked to Motorola tech support three times about PTT and received absolutely no useful information. Twice they point blank said the 1884 PTT button would not work with a BT headset. I have run across two other guys who use your setup and state, kinda sorta, that the 1884 works with the BT mu350r but just in passing.

I just got some 2.5mm 3 connector audio plugs to experiment with and that was a total failure. Just inserting the plug with nothing attached keys the mike. I sure wish I could get some schematics of these items to include the radio, but of course Motorola says they don't have them and can't get them. I know a PTT circuit is not a simple switch but some kind of short across the mike leads, but I sure can't figure out how they are actually doing that with three connectors. There has to be more to this than meets the eye.
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Re: Preaching to the Choir on GMRS, GPS, and Sena 20s

Unread postby LeeDavis » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:16 pm

OldButNotDead wrote:
LeeDavis wrote:Here's the branded Motorola wired solution I use. Unfortunately, they don't sell the ptt separately.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorola-1884-W ... SwAuNW7qMU

I have one of these inbound. I'm assuming the PTT button plugs into the aux port, correct? Do you need the ear piece/vox at all?


Yes, the PTT plugs to the aux port and works as you expect. Press the button, pause a beat for the radio to go into transmit mode (you hear hissing from the Sena helmet speakers), then talk. The headset that comes as part of the PTT package isn't used for anything we're doing.
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Re: Preaching to the Choir on GMRS, GPS, and Sena 20s

Unread postby Bob » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:59 am

OldButNotDead wrote:
LeeDavis wrote:I just got some 2.5mm 3 connector audio plugs to experiment with and that was a total failure. Just inserting the plug with nothing attached keys the mike.....
I sure wish I could get some schematics of these items to include the radio, but of course Motorola says they don't have them and can't get them.

Yep, exactly same results as yamadog's experimenting wiring his own plugs, keyed mic/no success. That schematic is probably buried deep in a 50 year old file cabinet at Matsushita, a printed circuit board made by several Chinese mfgrs that is most likely used in almost every cheap gmrs out there--Motorola, Midland, Cobra, all of 'em.
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Re: Preaching to the Choir on GMRS, GPS, and Sena 20s

Unread postby OldButNotDead » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:02 pm

This may be a duplicate because I'll swear I posted this earlier today. Then again old timers is hot on my butt. LOL

My 1884 arrived today and is working great. Delay to transmit is almost instantaneous when compared to the BT PTT.

Found problem with the 2.5mm plugs I tried to wire up. I wasn't pushing them in far enough. To quote that old bard Bugs Bunny, "what a maroon!"
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Re: Preaching to the Choir on GMRS, GPS, and Sena 20s

Unread postby Bob » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:54 pm

OldButNotDead wrote: Found problem with the 2.5mm plugs I tried to wire up. I wasn't pushing them in far enough.


I ran into this in my earlier days of experimenting with Midland/Motorola, and found that the plastic GMRS cases are not "precision made" , so that a jack might be recessed too far below the plastic for a plug to be inserted to the proper depth--I ended up shaving rubber on the plug's shaft, and removed plastic off the surface of the GMRS case to make it work. Might wanna check into that. The jack is soldered to the PCB and however all that fits into the plastic case can determine whether stuff works or not. But nice that you have a working setup now!
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