COFSTA

I have been kicking around the idea of a dual sport for a while and really liked the WR250R but can't justify owning 3 motorcycles (likely 4 when I buy a dedicated track bike). The CB500X is set up too well to let it go for cheap and would be the perfect candidate for a few dual sport mods. The purpose is for gravel and dirt roads. I'm not interested in climbing boulders, crossing rivers, or anything too extreme. As such, I'm not buying the expensive Level 3 Rally Raid setup because that involves too many changes. I'm not really ready for tube type tires, either, even with the RR 17" spoke setup because I'm doubtful the benefit will be worth the change since I'm still stuck with stock tube tire sizes. Just the wheels would be >$1000 and it's several hundred for their mail-out tubeless conversion. I may go this route, eventually, but I would probably want a different bike to go to that extreme (and do it well). I just want to be able to swap out the wheels and possibly make a few suspension adjustments on my Cogent setup and go. As such, I have a spare set of used Ebay stock wheels on the way ($400 shipped, including sprocket and rotors) to convert the CB500X to a decent adventure setup for when the pavement cools and I am less likely interested in sport riding.

I've been reading a number of posts on the 500X forum and the ADVrider forum but the information is from people I don't know and who don't know my riding style on the street. I also know very little about actual dual sport riding from experience. Although I have studied a fair bit, there is no substitute in getting thoughts from the experts. I'm hoping some of you guys who know me have a good idea for what I will want in a dual sport tire, since I will still want it to stick well on the road but give me more confidence in gravel, sand, dirt, etc.

I’m also running a rear tire hugger and doubt it would be a good idea to run a larger 170/60 rear due to potential clearance issues. 150/70 Rear or 160/60 Rear are the only real choices since I don’t really want to remove or modify my tire hugger to give clearance for a larger 170/60, although am not entirely sure that will be a problem. Similarly, 120/70 is really the only option up front. 110/80 will supposedly fit, but I don’t really want a narrower tire up there because of stability at lean on asphalt. Below are my considerations divided into groups of more to less off-road benefit. I have very little personal experience with any of this and hope the experts can chime in to correct me where I’m wrong since I have never ridden any of these tires. I have essentially ruled out the 90/10 group (Pirelli Scorpion Trail 2 / Conti Trail Attack 2) since they aren't notably much different than the T30EVOs I presently run.

40/60 or 50/50 off-road group is primarily for rear tire potential only (generally due to lack of front tires in my size with the only exception being TKC80):

Heidenau K60 Scout – Rear 150/70 only. I was told these are garbage on the street for sport riding but others seem to like them for their intended purpose.

Mitas E-07 / Dakar – Rear 150/70 only. Supposedly works well and good mileage. ADVrider guys seem to love these in combo with TKC80 fronts.

Shinko 805 – Rear 150/70 only. Inexpensive and good mileage. Supposedly works fine in a lot of conditions. Also used with TKC80 fronts.

TKC 80 – 120/70 Front and 150/70 Rear. Sounds to be a great off-road tire, if a little expensive. Rear supposedly wears quickly so people switch it out for one of the others.

Kenda K784 Big Block 150/70 rear only. People love these and they’re dirt cheap. Maybe too cheap.

60/40 tires – Perhaps a nice compromise although maybe still too similar to what I have:

TKC 70 – Front 120/70 and rear 150/70 options. Expensive.

Pirelli MT60 and RS - 160/60 rear 110/80 front. Stock OEM for the Ducati Scrambler, so it probably is inferior to anything non-OEM. Expensive. Non-RS has 160/60 and 120/70 sizes. Really expensive and reportedly wear quickly. Despite all this, a few of the Scrambler guys seem to love them.

Combinations (probably the way I am looking to go):
TKC80 front and Shinko 705 or 805 rear
TKC80 front Mitas E07 rear

Thoughts?

I'll just say this: knowing how you like to ride on the pavement--don't get any DS tires that have a "blocky" look like a knobby, like TKC80s, etc. The traction and handling will suffer too much for 'you', I think. Tourance's seem to be a good compromise--and everything IS a compromise as you know. Check the tire threads at advrider.com--I guarantee there will be someone there thats done what you want to do. ADV isn't just for the big adventure bikes--check the different forums.

Edit: When I ran TKC's on my KLR the rears were gone in a heartbeat because of the longer street use. You could watch the tread get thinner as you rode down the street lol.

Edit: consider something like a Tourance combined with airing-down a few lbs if you want to ride a while on dirt. The airing-down makes it feel like you're running full-on knobbies compared to not airing down (on gravel). (or whatever tires that will fit your wheels that aren't knobby-like.)

You can test the airing-down on your current tires just to get a feel for the improvement it provides. I think you'll be surprised.

The issues to using your CB500x for dual sport are suspension and wheel size. It's about a 5" travel street suspension which will beat you to misery on rough terrain. Consider that the V-strom dual sport has over an extra inch of travel and is considered by most only adequate for mild dirt roads. The next step to a true adventure bike like the BMW GS800 has 9" suspension travel.

The minimum front wheel size for an adventure bike is 19" and for more adventurishness 21" is better. The larger the wheel the greater the ability to span and even out the rough places.

Here's a kit to convert your Honda into a dual sport but it's expensive.
https://lanesplitter.jalopnik.com/this- ... 1767898886

If you simply want to be able to ride in gravel without sliding around like you do with street tires try some 60/40 or 70/30 dual sport tires biased for street like the ones Bob mentions. The bike wouldn't be able to make use of tires with more dirt bias.

There are many reasons why I ended up with a KTM 500 EXC-F for this sort of stuff. If you start getting into trail riding you'll want one!

Yep, what Lee said--if you only want to explore the occasional hard packed gravel/dirt fire road the CB would work with some better tires. But if you encounter some bad stutter-bumps (washboard) your teeth will shake loose--so also set the rear shock damping to full-soft before going on dirt.(and front too if they have rebound)

Did I mention airing them down?

Lee you should let Steve test ride the KTM on the street--he might get hooked.

Bob wrote:Lee you should let Steve test ride the KTM on the street--he might get hooked.

I'm more than happy to corrupt Steve. Old age and treachery will always beat youth and exuberance.

LeeDavis wrote:

Bob wrote:Lee you should let Steve test ride the KTM on the street--he might get hooked.

I'm more than happy to corrupt Steve. Old age and treachery will always beat youth and exuberance.

I'm already corrupted. I can change the oil on a track only Japanese literbike but I don't have time to maintain a KTM. No way!

The 500 will due until I get an actual garage with a service technician and possibly umbrella girls. A trailer is next up on the shopping list.

What are the recommended maintenance intervals on the 500EXC-F? I don't see them. 690 Enduro R seems more likely for me due to street oriented maintenance intervals every 6K miles.

User manual maintenance for the 500 is based on racing and hard enduro so doesn't have much relevance to our style of casual riding. I'm doubling the 15 hr suggested oil change interval and will send the oil for analysis to Blackstone. I suspect my maintenance will end up similar to other dual sports.

The 690 Enduro R is a good choice. It doesn't weigh any more than the dual sport DRZ400 but is a superior bike, quite capable on both dirt and street. A 690 with more appropriate tires than ours went sizzling by us on a difficult Colorado trail. Greg has the supermoto version and it's quick.

For comparison, many people will tell you that the 500 is a street legal dirt bike while the 690 is a true dual sport. I agree with that in spirit, though the 500 has a much wider range transmission than a dirt only bike so does fine on the street.

http://www.advpulse.com/adv-bikes/cb500 ... r-the-tat/

This lady begs to differ ^^^^

Cue the girl bike jokes... I really should just buy a crappy old KLR and beat the crap out of it! Stupid carbs though!

https://winstonsalem.craigslist.org/mcy ... 78180.html

Naaaah, don't get a KLR. We've ALL been there and most wish we hadn't. If you want something to flog around, find a cheap used F650GS--they have fuel injection and handle pretty well on 181 too! But also in the dirt. And the ground reach is excellent on them, unlike the KLR which is quite tall.

Edit: By F650GS I mean the older thumpers. The newer F650's are twins, and the thumpers are now G650's.

Or even one of these-->>
https://greensboro.craigslist.org/mcy/d ... 24680.html

Bob wrote:Naaaah, don't get a KLR. We've ALL been there and most wish we hadn't. If you want something to flog around, find a cheap used F650GS--they have fuel injection and handle pretty well on 181 too! But also in the dirt. And the ground reach is excellent on them, unlike the KLR which is quite tall.

Edit: By F650GS I mean the older thumpers. The newer F650's are twins, and the thumpers are now G650's.

Or even one of these-->>
https://greensboro.craigslist.org/mcy/d ... 24680.html

What is the difference between the twin / single 650s? Husky is KTM in different clothes, is it not?

007 wrote: What is the difference between the twin / single 650s? Husky is KTM in different clothes, is it not?

Conventional wisdom says a thumper has better power delivery to the rear wheel on dirt than a twin, half as many power pulses with larger spaces between them--better traction in dirt because of this. The BMW 650 thumpers also cost less and are lighter than the twins, but enough horsepower to have fun in the twisties with it.

Husqvarna is now owned by KTM but I believe the product is not a carbon copy, but is produced in their own plant to their own specs. Prior they were owned by BMW and Cagiva.

When all is said and done, you'll be happier long-term if you just go get a lightly used KTM (or similar). Take advantage of the collective wisdom.

KLR...been there, done that. Picking up 400+ lbs out of the mud sux. It's an OK ride if you need to traverse the Andes mountains and plan to break down in Patagonia with only chewing gum for repairs but otherwise, not so much.

I was out all day yesterday, riding forest service roads with Greg. He sent his KTM 500 suspension off to get lowered so was riding his DRZ400. Greg and me usually ride about equal pace but yesterday I was pulling away on my KTM. Both bikes have TKC80 tires so that's not it, it's just the DRZ400 is good in the dirt but the KTM is better. You probably don't want to start with top-of-the-line but get something that puts you in the game.

KTM shares a lot with Husqvarna. My 500 EXC-F and the Husqvarna FE 501, along with many other bikes in their lineups, are nearly identical. The differences are mainly in the refinements.

Having actual fun in the dirt means that every so often the bike gets dropped so it matters to keep it under 400 lbs. Yesterday, Greg and me were scoping out side trails that are usually not mapped to see what's there. Great stuff but it can get gnarly. The heavier adventure bikes work fine in the western US for camping along the hundreds of miles of dirt roads through the wilderness and deserts. In the east we don't have that. What works here needs to maneuver in tight places.

Hmmmm

https://raleigh.craigslist.org/mcy/d/hu ... 60732.html

You don't want to put that thing in the dirt with the SM package. That's set up for tight twisties right there.

Put some blocky DS tires on it and hit the fire roads.

There are numbers on it for a reason. That's a track day bike and if that's what you want it would be a ton o' fun.

Its a breath mint! Its a candy mint! Its 2 mints in one!

It would be a hoot on the pavement getting you from fire road A to fire road B. Price looks pretty good too.

tireatr wrote:You don't want to put that thing in the dirt with the SM package. That's set up for tight twisties right there.

I would obviously get another set of wheels...

If you want to try dual sport get a dual sport bike. The easiest thing to do is what everybody else does and go buy a used DRZ400S. Ride it for however long it takes you to decide you like or don't like dual sport. At that point keep it because you love it, sell it and be done with dual sport or sell it and buy something better. In any of those scenarios the DRZ400S won't cost you much, if anything, because depreciation on DRZ's is very low.

I sold my DRZ for $600 more than paid plus sold its Rekluse clutch for another $200 plus transferred its Tublis inserts, windshield, luggage, GPS mounts, power outlets and I don't know what-all to my KTM500. My DRZ was almost like a free motorcycle and it taught me about dual sport without being mislead or getting in over my head.