Metzler Tourance Tires

[Brick]

Damn, I have RECENTLY... This bike the 2014 Tenere'... been only getting like 3,000 miles on what had been my favorite tire the Metzler Tourance. This was the original Tourance not there Tourance EXP or the Tourance Next. Been scratching my head why. So I checked the Super Tenere' forum. Come to find out that the Tourance's are now made in China. I couldn't believe it so I went to the basement and sure enough both tires ON the bike AND the new rear in stock are all marked "Made in China" Damn!!

Bob, didn't you say you had a Tourance that you took off? Could you check it to see if it's one of the Made in China tires?

I'll be switching next time around for sure a tire that was very good for me is now junk!

[Bob]

Brick, I hate to break this to ya but Metzeler, Michelin, etc (all the major players) are all "global companies" with plants all over europe, asia, and india. To say you're not gonna buy them any more because they are made in China might be a little short sighted. Chinese companies can and do make mdse. as good a quality as the rest of the world. They are also masters at "building to spec", meaning they can also build crappy stuff if thats what's spec'd--but so could anyone else if they wanted to. BTW, where was your Zumo and Iphone mfgd?

But to answer your question, yes, the Tourance I have was made in China. Couldn't blame you for switching tires in search of better mileage, though.

Incidentally, based on the current tread showing on my Tourance take-off, I would estimate it to be good for around 4K miles around these parts.


Edit: I measured the tread depth in the center of my Tourance and it's 6.9mm deep--thats with 1500 miles on the tire. Compare that to the depth on your never-used Tourance. Curious to see what it reads....

[Brick]

Bob... I didn't fall of the pumpkin truck yesterday... I do know about global markets.
However, the point is that they didn't use to be made in China when they were the current DS tire for Metzler.

I measured the new on the shelf Tourance and it has 10.0mm tread depth. The one on the bike now has 2.0mm and I don't think it will make this weekends GA event so I'm putting the new on the shelf, "Made in China" Tourance on for this event. I also ordered a new front last Wednesday and it's due to be delivered, to quote UPS, "by the end of day Thursday 9/18/14. That means I change it right before the trip. Oh well it is what it is.

I may purchase your old throwaway Tourance not sure just yet... Timing... it's all in the timing!
Thanks

Brick, I hate to break this to ya but Metzeler, Michelin, etc (all the major players) are all "global companies" with plants all over europe, asia, and india. To say you're not gonna buy them any more because they are made in China might be a little short sighted. Chinese companies can and do make mdse. as good a quality as the rest of the world. They are also masters at "building to spec", meaning they can also build crappy stuff if thats what's spec'd--but so could anyone else if they wanted to. BTW, where was your Zumo and Iphone mfgd?

But to answer your question, yes, the Tourance I have was made in China. Couldn't blame you for switching tires in search of better mileage, though.

Incidentally, based on the current tread showing on my Tourance take-off, I would estimate it to be good for around 4K miles around these parts.


Edit: I measured the tread depth in the center of my Tourance and it's 6.9mm deep--thats with 1500 miles on the tire. Compare that to the depth on your never-used Tourance. Curious to see what it reads....

[Bob]

I measured the new on the shelf Tourance and it has 10.0mm tread depth.

OK, so mine with 6.9mm depth is 31% less than the new one---which means with 1500 miles on it, it should go about 4500--so I was pretty close. Subtract a couple hundred miles for the depth of the TWI's and you'd get 4300. "Theoretically" anyway.

So where were the earlier Tourance's made if not in China? Any idea when they switched it?

[Brick]

I know my earler ones were not made in China but have no idea... the forum discusses the change but no date of change. The speculation is that when they went to the EXP and the NEXT which are both newer DS tires for them. However, the switched to 90/10 from the 8020 and well I liked the 80/20.

I measured the new on the shelf Tourance and it has 10.0mm tread depth.

OK, so mine with 6.9mm depth is 31% less than the new one---which means with 1500 miles on it, it should go about 4500--so I was pretty close. Subtract a couple hundred miles for the depth of the TWI's and you'd get 4300. "Theoretically" anyway.

So where were the earlier Tourance's made if not in China? Any idea when they switched it?

[Bob]

You saying the original Tourance went from 80/20 to 90/10--street vs DS? Sounds like they did change the rubber compounds (made it softer).

[Bob]

So anyway I "get" what you were saying now. The mileage dropped around the same time they were switched to Chinese mfg., which looked suspicious.

However, I have a feeling the changes were just some long-term mktg. efforts on Metzeler's part to hurry the transition to the newer models of Tourance. They can't keep making every model they introduce forever, the cost would be prohibitive: "Gotta move the customer base along to the next-gen so lets shitty up the older models to help speed the transition". The sneaky part is, the newer models always claim to get X % better mileage than the previous iteration--well hell yeah, I guess it does if you just lowered the previous iteration's mileage by X %.

[Marc K]

Or....Brick got a lot faster as he got used to his Super T ! From a guy who got 1900 miles from a Conti Motion. Tires suck.

[Bob]

Or....Brick got a lot faster as he got used to his Super T ! From a guy who got 1900 miles from a Conti Motion. Tires suck.

Doubt that's the reason. He put 60K+ miles on his last Tenere. He's just a real bad boy.

[Brick]

The change from 80/20 to 90/10 is from the Tourance to the EXP/NEXT.

Me a bad boy? No way!

You saying the original Tourance went from 80/20 to 90/10--street vs DS? Sounds like they did change the rubber compounds (made it softer).

[Broz]

Brick I would be surprised if you got more than 3000 miles on any tire the way you rode last Friday. You are victim of having too much fun.
Broz

[LeeDavis]

Brick I would be surprised if you got more than 3000 miles on any tire the way you rode last Friday. You are victim of having too much fun.
Broz

Yep, I noticed it too (you had me leaned over on the pegs twice to keep pace) though you could get more mileage at a lower speed with harder rubber. Soft rubber = Grip = Fun = Low Mileage. There's no secret sauce.

[Brick]

You guys really think I'm riding that much harder/faster than I used to?

[LeeDavis]

You guys really think I'm riding that much harder/faster than I used to?

Geez, I've told you that for weeks, dumbass!! At 1st attributed to fancy new suspension vs worn out suspension and now it turns out you've been using softer rubber than before. Those things make a big difference.

[Brick]

Hmmm... softer rubber... hmmm I just thought it was junk rubber now you "think" it's softer rubber. I guess anything is possible. I usually think Made in China is = to junk not faster/softer... So you think this less expensive Metzler that used to be made in Germany (is on the side wall of the two old used tires I have on the shelf) are actually a softer compound and not just junk!!?? I'm skeptical. Could be ... But then the only other reason I am riding faster is well.... what is the other reason?

You guys really think I'm riding that much harder/faster than I used to?

Geez, I've told you that for weeks, dumbass!! At 1st attributed to fancy new suspension vs worn out suspension and now it turns out you've been using softer rubber than before. Those things make a big difference.

[Bob]

I wouldn't classify it as "junk" strictly because it was made in China or is a softer compound; I also wouldn't call it an "improvement" either. I just think it is an effort by Metzeler to degrade the tread life enough to incentivize the users to move on along to the next Gen Tourance(s) so they can quit making the original. The mfg. down time and setup costs to run a slower-selling tire (or anything in mfg.) are huge--to the point that these tires will cease being profitable at all, and forcing either a large price increase or summarily shooting it.

[LeeDavis]

New suspension + soft rubber = fast.

"Junk" don't get no respect. According to some people the Conti Motions I usually run are Junk. Could be, but they're soft rubber so the bike can go like stink and they don't cost anything so when they wear out quickly, who cares. I like 'em!

[Brick]

Hmmm... Bob a very interesting "theory"... and actually possible. However that all being said in the past I have experienced many many tires go away - replaced by a new and improved... with emphasis on supposed IMPROVED tires and none have taken this approach. In fact ALL have eventually just said, "NLA"!
Why would I ever presume that this would be there approach this time?

I wouldn't classify it as "junk" strictly because it was made in China or is a softer compound; I also wouldn't call it an "improvement" either. I just think it is an effort by Metzeler to degrade the tread life enough to incentivize the users to move on along to the next Gen Tourance(s) so they can quit making the original. The mfg. down time and setup costs to run a slower-selling tire (or anything in mfg.) are huge--to the point that these tires will cease being profitable at all, and forcing either a large price increase or summarily shooting it.

[Bob]

Why would I ever presume that this would be there approach this time?

I guess because its common practice. At some point, it WILL be NLA for sure. But if they are still selling a bunch and want folks to move to the next gen, they could shoot themselves in the foot by pulling the plug too early. Folks might move along to their competition instead. But once the sales are truly atrocious, its time to pull the plug. I've seen this happen with a couple of large packaging mfgrs. I represented back when I was "more industrious" lol.

[Brick]

Oh so I now understand... you are speaking from experience! [THUMBS UP SIGN] Makes sense now.

Why would I ever presume that this would be there approach this time?

I guess because its common practice. At some point, it WILL be NLA for sure. But if they are still selling a bunch and want folks to move to the next gen, they could shoot themselves in the foot by pulling the plug too early. Folks might move along to their competition instead. But once the sales are truly atrocious, its time to pull the plug. I've seen this happen with a couple of large packaging mfgrs. I represented back when I was "more industrious" lol.

[Bob]

Or, you could just ask youself this question: WHY would a mfgr. suddenly re-spec. a tire model several years down the road---in light of the 3 newer models that are regarded as their future in this market (dual-sport tires) ? Are they just looking out for the handful of users still buying this old model? Most likely they are looking for ways to make this old model more profitable, to offset the huge fixed costs involved with mfg. a lower-volume unit. Self-cannibalization is something they like to avoid.